Bart’s father Tony Campolo is one of the most prominent evangelical leaders of the past 50 years. In this episode of the WHYY show Radio Times, the father and son chat together with host Marty Moss-Coane about Bart’s departure from Christianity and the relationship they’ve had since. Listen above.

Interested in the conversation between Bart and Tony? Check out the book they’ve co-authored together, Why I Left, Why I Stayed, and the documentary film featuring both in conversation, Far From the Tree.